Before I step in it

Before I step in it, let me qualify what I am about to say. I have a 17 yr old DD who has played showcase level ball for the last 3 years and will play at a D2 or D3 school next year. I also have a son who is a freshman and we are looking at joining a program and playing showcase ball next summer. My observation is that there are not nearly as many baseball programs as there are softball, however this state produces more high caliber baseball players then softball by far. Is it possible that do to the volume of girls playing showcase ball that it is watered down a bit? OK let me have it.

 

...As I step in, lol, watered down, more high caliber players?

I'd beg to differ and if I'm wrong, and I'm wrong alot, so be it .....so, I'll politely pass this question off to someone who knows.
Help us out GMan.
Fishman

 

numbers game

This is a simple answer. Proportionally they are probably the same. But it is apples and oranges. There are simply more opportunities for boys than girls, therefore there will be more boys than girls.

Look at how many baseball leagues there are vs girls softball, how many boys are playing baseball from age 8 up vs how many girls. How many more baseball fields there are in most cities vs girls softball fields. Colleges give more and area allowed more scholarships in baseball than softball. Pro baseball is an option and a lure for boys, what do girls have?

This is an unfair comparison.

IMO,
Ty

 

Let me try to explain more I am observing, as I stated above my DD has been on the softball showcase trail for the last 3 years, this summer I took some time to go and watch some showcase baseball becuase I have a son who will be trying out soon, so I wanted to get an idea of how the 2 compared. In softball there are generally 40-80 teams in showcase tournaments, the baseball showcases I observed did not have any where near that many. I realize one factor could be a lot of talented baseball players play Legion ball and maybe not showcase. But my point is asking is the talent level of boys in NC ahead of the girls, when comparing both of them to how they compete with the rest of the country, thats all I am saying.

 

The answer is complicated and requires the understanding of history

Apples and oranges. 12U 'rec' baseball is little league, usually community supported (at least indirectly with public facilities) and lots of boys playing. Also, school ball coaching in baseball is, with a few exceptions, far better than baseball. All this reflects the history of the two games. Almost no on in North Carolina knew what fastpitch was before the '90's. How many hall of fame baseball players had the state produced prior to that? Showcase baseball is a relatively recent development. Our town (Greenville) is, perhaps, the baseball capital of the state. The baseball powers here still don't feel showcase baseball is a good thing preferring to develop talent with the LL, Babe Ruth, Legion and school ball system.

The fact is that, relatively speaking, baseball talent is ahead of softball talent but it has NOTHING to do with the number of travel/showcase teams.

 

First, your daughter has not been on the "showcase trail" for the past three years... she has been on the "Travel ball tournament" trail. They call it showcase but as it compares to what you saw in baseball there isn't really any comparison.

Having had a son, who is now a junior playing college ball and who played showcase baseball, and a daughter, who is a hs junior and is now playing so called "showcase" softball, there is a world of difference between the two. What you saw in baseball is what I believe is real showcase ball. When my son played with the Dirtbags, there were only around five showcase organizations/teams in the state. The rosters of those teams were made up of boys that were well on their way to playing either college and/or pro ball.

In comparison, the majority of the so called showcase softball teams will have only a few players move on to play at the next level. There are a few teams, like the Blues, Cards and Wildcats that approach the "baseball-like" level of talent, but most other teams are far from it.

Showcase means two different things when it comes to baseball and softball. Softball is more about the team playing in tournaments (with a certain amount of "Daddyball" and "Trophy-Hunting") and baseball is more about the individual player showcasing his talents for recruiters and scouts. In that respect, the way softball is showcased it makes it somewhat harder for the college folks to evaluate the talent. This is why the so called elite teams have to get their players into tournaments like the one in Boulder, Colorado where the players talents can be compared to like players.

I do think NC has the potential to produce high caliber softball players like what has become known with regards to the baseball players. The big difference is that softball needs an elite level group of teams (maybe 6 to 8) that will just play each other for the most part and will have as their focus the highest possible showing at the national events. You only get better by playing the best and at this level, everyone doesn't get to play just because they, or their parents, want them to. They play at that level because they have the skill and work ethic to do so!

Duke, there may be some folks in Hickory or Shelby that may disagree with you! But, that's for another board and another thread. Ha! Ha! The facts though, don't lie. Showcase baseball has given more, and better, exposure to more NC boys. Showcase softball has just created more teams and that makes it harder to identify the real talent. It is also a detriment to the development of that talent.

Ty, I somewhat agree. A softball player does though have a better chance of receiving a larger scholarship than a baseball player. This is because at a DI school there are potentially 12 Scholarships available for softball and 11.7 for baseball if both are fully funded. The rosters (average around 19 for softball and 35 for baseball) do limit the girls, but the ones that do make it have the potential to get more $$$.

Fish, at this time I do think we produce more high caliber baseball players. I don't think it's so much a difference in the talent level as it is a difference in the development of that talent and the exposure of it. If softball can ever reach that development/exposure level then we will see schools like UNC, State or even ECU (if they can find their NC roadmaps buried under the ones from Cali and Hawaii) competing nationally with rosters filled with Carolina girls. UNC baseball has done it, ECU baseball has too, and there's no reason one of the softball programs can't.

Stiks, advice for your son... don't worry about getting on a "showcase team" just yet. That is your goal for the summer/fall between his junior and senior year, when the recruiting really happens. Have him go to as many individual showcase events as he can and attend fall or winter camps at colleges. Find the best available ball to play locally during the summer and fall through his sophomore year. Use the money you save for the above showcases and camps. There should be some bucks left over for individual instruction during the winter. At his age, his goal should be to be the best high school player possible. If he has the ability to play beyond high school that ability will open the showcase doors when it counts! Good luck and have fun!

 

Another piece of advice. Each X-mas I have a Skills Day where I collar current and ex-ML players, ex college HC's, pro scouts and a host of other very talented instructors. They all do this for free, so we spend a day with players teaching them all areas of playing baseball--from hitting to fielding to pitching. Why do we do this? To give parents an opportunity to place their kids in a camp that would routinely cost $450+ for only $50. Why do we charge at all? Because we feed everybody...grandma's, grandpa's and in laws...plus we donate everything else to a charity.

You would never find another place to get more bang for your buck.

 

That's an excellent "gift" to the baseball community!

 

Thanks for the segue

 

Thanks Gman after you brought me back to reality,with softball you gave me some great advice about baseball. But you also proved my point showcase softball in the Carolina's is watered down. I assure you my DD has played in all the NC, SC and so called Va showcase tournaments available, for the last 3 years. And she has down very well do'nt get me wrong but I have noticed from tourney to tourney that there are always a few teams and or players that are overwhelmed by the talent. In the few baseball tourneys I observed the skll level was solid all around, that was my point. Also I do believe that the instruction as a whole is better in baseball then softball, this is not meant to put any of the top organizations down but after them it falls off dramatically.